Comments on: Community, Gender, and Free/Open Source Software http://www.openparenthesis.org/2008/08/04/community-gender-and-freeopen-source-software Because these are the early days of a long revolution . . . Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:10:36 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: John http://www.openparenthesis.org/2008/08/04/community-gender-and-freeopen-source-software#comment-611361 John Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:54:59 +0000 http://www.openparenthesis.org/?p=636#comment-611361 The images don't come from the OpenID provider - basically if there is an hcard residing at your openid endpoint, it will get picked up - but in your case there isn't one. The images don’t come from the OpenID provider – basically if there is an hcard residing at your openid endpoint, it will get picked up – but in your case there isn’t one.

]]> By: Tom Clancy http://www.openparenthesis.org/2008/08/04/community-gender-and-freeopen-source-software#comment-611132 Tom Clancy Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:04:22 +0000 http://www.openparenthesis.org/?p=636#comment-611132 No problem. It might be my openid provider, since they seem to refuse to send my picture across. The link was http://metatalk.metafilter.com/15281/Discussion-Point No problem. It might be my openid provider, since they seem to refuse to send my picture across. The link was http://metatalk.metafilter.com/15281/Discussion-Point

]]> By: John http://www.openparenthesis.org/2008/08/04/community-gender-and-freeopen-source-software#comment-610405 John Wed, 06 Aug 2008 22:28:17 +0000 http://www.openparenthesis.org/?p=636#comment-610405 Tom - sorry your comment got a bit munged, including the link. Seems like the 2.2.1 version of the OpenID plugin maybe is the issue? I hate to disable it but may have to if it keeps doing this. (Adding backslashes to escape quotes, killing the href= part of the <a> Tom – sorry your comment got a bit munged, including the link.

Seems like the 2.2.1 version of the OpenID plugin maybe is the issue? I hate to disable it but may have to if it keeps doing this. (Adding backslashes to escape quotes, killing the href= part of the

]]> By: Tom Clancy http://www.openparenthesis.org/2008/08/04/community-gender-and-freeopen-source-software#comment-610088 Tom Clancy Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:26:40 +0000 http://www.openparenthesis.org/?p=636#comment-610088 There was a huge blowup/ <a>discussion of community and gender at MetaFilter last year</a>. That thread was really just the jumping off point for it. Anyone willing to have a discussion about norms for a community has something invested in that community already, so I think there\'s a tendency to fight to keep things \"like they are\", though \"like they are\" is based on one\'s perspective. Everyone brings biases to the table, so it\'s hard to shake out a fair set of rules. (In the interests of full disclosure, I\'m \"yerfatma\" in the discussion linked above, clearly indicating my care for mores and norms, I suppose.) There was a huge blowup/ discussion of community and gender at MetaFilter last year. That thread was really just the jumping off point for it. Anyone willing to have a discussion about norms for a community has something invested in that community already, so I think there\’s a tendency to fight to keep things \”like they are\”, though \”like they are\” is based on one\’s perspective. Everyone brings biases to the table, so it\’s hard to shake out a fair set of rules.

(In the interests of full disclosure, I\’m \”yerfatma\” in the discussion linked above, clearly indicating my care for mores and norms, I suppose.)

]]> By: Joe Cascio http://www.openparenthesis.org/2008/08/04/community-gender-and-freeopen-source-software#comment-607541 Joe Cascio Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:20:39 +0000 http://www.openparenthesis.org/?p=636#comment-607541 One more thing... Love the OpenID signin!! One more thing… Love the OpenID signin!!

]]> By: Joe Cascio http://www.openparenthesis.org/2008/08/04/community-gender-and-freeopen-source-software#comment-607540 Joe Cascio Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:19:13 +0000 http://www.openparenthesis.org/?p=636#comment-607540 Social networks provide a model for creating friendly places where good people can get together and not have to deal with trolls. Basically, they just let you block people that you find objectionable. This leads to communities that get better and better because nice people attract nice people, and if the trolls get blocked by everyone, then there's no one for them to practice their infantile bad behavior on. If someone is perhaps an excellent technical contributer, but a bad actor when it comes to social interactions, then the community must choose to do without his/her contribution to keep the group on the civility level it wants. This robs no one of their freedom. An individual shunned by one community can join another or start their own community of people who are not bothered by or may actually enjoy jousting with other trolls. It's an interesting question because at the end of the day, there is more at stake than just who-talks-to-who. There is the source that the community works on and the technical questions and discussions that go on. It's disturbing to think that there are people who can't have a technical discussion without insulting someone. I'm convinced these are the people with the lowest self-esteem and confidence in their work. What they can't achieve by merit they attempt to achieve by intimidation. Frankly, I am very happy to do without the contributions of someone who is insulting, bullying or arrogant. At some point, someone decides what code gets into the releases and what doesn't. That person has to decide if they need bad actors in their group of contributors or not. I think a good social group that self polices by shunning will attract more good contributors than it loses. It's sort of the same thing that happened when smoking was banned in bars in my state. Many establishments actually saw an increase in business because people didn't have to put up with smoke anymore and there are many more non-smokers than smokers now. In the same way, I think there are more well-behaved people than trolls. Self-organizing groups of coders have no obligation to admit people who don't behave. It's the right of free association, basically. So maybe what open source projects need are more social networking tools, like blocking and befriending. Social networks provide a model for creating friendly places where good people can get together and not have to deal with trolls. Basically, they just let you block people that you find objectionable. This leads to communities that get better and better because nice people attract nice people, and if the trolls get blocked by everyone, then there’s no one for them to practice their infantile bad behavior on.
If someone is perhaps an excellent technical contributer, but a bad actor when it comes to social interactions, then the community must choose to do without his/her contribution to keep the group on the civility level it wants.
This robs no one of their freedom. An individual shunned by one community can join another or start their own community of people who are not bothered by or may actually enjoy jousting with other trolls.
It’s an interesting question because at the end of the day, there is more at stake than just who-talks-to-who. There is the source that the community works on and the technical questions and discussions that go on. It’s disturbing to think that there are people who can’t have a technical discussion without insulting someone. I’m convinced these are the people with the lowest self-esteem and confidence in their work. What they can’t achieve by merit they attempt to achieve by intimidation.
Frankly, I am very happy to do without the contributions of someone who is insulting, bullying or arrogant. At some point, someone decides what code gets into the releases and what doesn’t. That person has to decide if they need bad actors in their group of contributors or not.
I think a good social group that self polices by shunning will attract more good contributors than it loses. It’s sort of the same thing that happened when smoking was banned in bars in my state. Many establishments actually saw an increase in business because people didn’t have to put up with smoke anymore and there are many more non-smokers than smokers now. In the same way, I think there are more well-behaved people than trolls.
Self-organizing groups of coders have no obligation to admit people who don’t behave. It’s the right of free association, basically. So maybe what open source projects need are more social networking tools, like blocking and befriending.

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